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College Preparation conflicts with Fundamentalist Christian education, issues to consider

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College Preparation and Bible (& Intelligent Design) conflict issues in the context of fundamentalist Christian Schools.
  • A compilation of thoughts 
Goals Bible End Times Church Darwin and Evolution Biology & Medicine
Intelligent Design Questions to ask?   Topics not taught Science Fundamenalist colleges
related pages:  Religion        Intelligent Design Jokes        BushWatch        Israel
Goals: explore contradictions between fundamentalist Christian Schools teachings and course content in U.S. public universities, state colleges and junior colleges.  (Christian literal view is radical extremism as viewed by all public colleges and universities)
    1. Address fear that your child is in a cult, because literal translation of Bible conflicts with U.S. college system. Courts, Corporate business (ethics, Civil Rights Act), governments, and academy reject literal view of Bible (laws against proseltyzing.  All this presents a confusing view of what is ‘truth’ to your child?
    2. I want to understand my child's "Evolution is wrong" statement. 
    3. There is an attempt to combine science and religion through Intelligent Design and just the mention of ID in higher education is a barrier to post graduate education. 
    4. Explore why Answers in Genesis and Institute of Creation completely rejected by science.
    5. Does your Christian school instruct on plate tectonics within biblical timeframe, creatures in between apes and humans, effects of global warming,
    6. Explain Answers in Genesis quote: "The only reasonable explanation for all the information in DNA is that a Designer put all the information in the original genes –e.g. the ‘kinds’ that He made during the six days of Creation"
    7. Your child says Christianity is asuperior religion, but Civil Rights Act says you can’t discriminate based on religion. 

Why do you have World View classes in senior year? (I want your child to hear answer).  Isn’t the debate about ID just a rehash of Galileo / Catholic Church conflict?  If your child ever mentioned that dinosaurs and humans existed together it could jeopardize his education.

Where did the 'so called' races come from ? What is the Curse of Ham, mainline clergy have rejected it since 1950, but before that it was used extensively to justify U.S. slavery practices.  Does your child dismiss all other religions as inferior to Christianity, which is completely inconsistent with higher education teachings.  What's the significance of holding on to 'literal' view of bible. Will your child lose 'fulfillment'? Will he be 'empty' at UofI? (Ken Ham, AiG)  

Understand Christian students backlash when your child 'leaves the nest' and discovers the conflict between Christian schools and public college system.  

To believe in 'end times' you have to believe in the 'literal' view of bible, thus global warming, wars, corruption are just signals of that event and to stop global warming is futile and non biblical.? So if the world is going to end, why embrace environmentalism?

How do you live with the conflict of a literal view of the bible and modern science?

Will your child not choose a career in environmental science because it involves a deep understanding of evolution and he would be laughed at with a literal view.  Will he choose a career based on avoiding evolution, or based on testing to find his real skills? Mention UofI guidance counselor secretaries’ statements on this.

see Bios, Cosmos, Theos, edited by Henry Margenau and Roy Abraham Varghese

see Kenneth R. Miller, a professor of biology at Brown University, discusses the relationship between religion and science in Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground between God and Evolution

see Ted Peters "I think that the DNA that is in your and my bodies right now is sort of an accident of evolution. By accident I don't mean to trivialize it - it's the product of many millions of years of development, but it's not designed in any kind of holy or sacred way. It's full of defects. We may have four or five thousand genes that precipitate diseases, and cause suffering. Now, if God were to design DNA, I think God probably could have done a better job. So, I hesitate to think of it as sacred, holy, special ... "


Bible                  back
Any honest person must admit that he takes parts of the Bible figuratively.

John 15:6 ("If a man abide not in me, ... men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned") very literally -- as a command to burn my forebears at the stake.

Luke 14:23 ("compel them to enter in") very literally -- and made people join and obey the Church under penalty of law. Inquisition?

Ruth 2:12, Psalm 17:8. God has wings,  Book of Ezekiel? Book of Daniel? Apocalypse,

Genesis 1:24,25 "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after….

Is a virus a creeping crawling creature? If not where did it come from?

Genesis Flood, Genesis 6-8  Bible, interpretation: literally, figuratively, or phenomenologically, .....Presuppositions required for literal view....but whose presuppositions?  From a Christian point of view creationism is scientific.

How does the bible explain competitive or territorial behavior? Would your child be lacking if he didn’t understand the causes of these behaviors from a scientific point of view?

Conflict between end times (have to believe literal view of bible, so environment doesn't matter). There is no doubt at UofI of impending environmental disaster.

To believe in End Times, you have to believe in literal view of Bible. But no college, business or government agency will touch 'end times'.

Isn't the end times issue closely related to the support of Iraq War., hurricanes, asteroids, ... and subsequent denial or rejection of environmental disaster.

Isn't a literal view of the bible perceived as an 'extremist' position?  Is everything the way it is today the same as when it was created?  If a scientific concept that conflicts with the bible then is it automatically false?  Is someone who is a Christian but believes in the bible figuratively less fulfilled than one who believes is literally?

Does your Christian school advocate Dominionism?  

Is there any credence to Christian right / Bush ignoring global warming, because its a sign of 'end times'. ? nut cases. There's no doubt in University system that global warming is real, the only people who doubt it are the Christian right. Is this tied to the death nell of mentioning ID in the university system.

½ of all Christians are Catholic, ¼ mainline Protestants?

Original intention of Bible (Torah, old testament) to create laws, provide historical context (Genesis, Exodus). Archeology supports this. Gospels (new testament), narrative and parables are morality lessons. And is water into wine an allegory of transformation of Judaism into Christianity. Based on genealogies the world is 6000 years old. No room for interpretation, science is just ‘wrong’. So….but…you can reconcile this if you say world is billions of years old….Civilization as we know it didn’t start until 6000 years ago.


Make observations, to reflect on how creation was originated. Expanding universe, concentric nature of earth and universe, iron sent down, faults, submarine volcanic activity, saline / salt water, water cycle, acidic / basaltic mountains, rock classifications, outgassed atmosphere, hydro-geologic cycle, creation in successive stages over tremendously long spans of time,

Church back
The Catholic Commandments differ significantly from the Protestant ones, which themselves differ from the Hebrew ones.  Are there courses in medical school about referencing the bible for cures to diseases, illness? Will Christian ‘cure’ work on a Hindu or Muslim?

What is Progressive revelation, What is extent of Bahai persecution by Iran. 


Darwin, Evolution back
related pages:  Religion        Intelligent Design Jokes        BushWatch        Israel  
Sir Francis Bacon, father of scientific method and 'natural philosophy.... rejected Genesis, bible..etc.  Evolution threatens all religions creationist stories equally.  Darwin: Origin of the Species, many before him believed evolution was correct, but couldn't prove it, until Darwin, Galapogos.  Darwin proposal, descent with modification as a result of natural selection fit the evidence best. Groups of Organisms (populations) gradually evolve through the process of natural selection. Accepted world wide except for religious zealots.

Bark Beetle?....if God created the bark beetle and it was not a threat to forests, what has changed,  why is it devastating forests all over the world (its global warming). 

Darwin opposed on biblical grounds: immutability of species, young age of earth.  Is it possible for mutation to be true but evolution to be false? *****

Watson and Crick's discovery of the DNA molecule in the 1950s, confirmed Darwin's theory to an amazing degree, so that Darwin's theory is now considered the foundational principle of modern biology.   

Catholic Church officially acknowledged in 1950 ...evolution was not in conflict with Christian doctrine, Pope Pius XII Humani Generis  The Pope has had the foresight to, over 100 years after Darwin, endorse the theory of evolution; thus, rank-and-file Roman Catholics are, for the most part, not trying to get the six-day creation myth taught as science in our public schools.

If Genesis 1 is read as a literary-theological work whose purpose is to portray the order and beauty of God's creation, all difficulties with a 4.5 billion year old earth and a 14 billion year old universe disappear.

Snakes / mammals dynamics drove evolution.  Bacterial resistance?  Tutor bats, and memetic evolution, Memetic evolution, eye glasses analogy. Co-evolution?

Polar bears deaths due to receding ice packs. evolution. not surviving because of man-made change in environment.

Jung and Freud heavily influenced by evolution. Belief in recapitulation theory and inheritance of acquired characteristics (Lamarckianism) were of crucial importance in stimulating theories about supposed ancestral behaviour now affecting modern human beings.

Darwin’s belief that man had descended from lower animals led him to delve into the evolution of intelligence and the origin of instincts and emotions-hence his 1872 book The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals, published one year after The Descent of Man. Frank Sulloway has shown just how much Freud owed to Darwin’s earlier speculation

Ontogeny, is the development of embryos of a given species, phylogeny is the evolutionary history of a species. Modern science recognizes numerous connections between ontogeny and phylogeny, but Haeckels' recapitulation is wrong. Recapitulation claims that the development of the embyro of every species repeats the evolutionary development of that species fully....wrong.

Evolution 'gaps' exploited .....Whales: anti-evolutionists twenty or thirty years ago railed against the possibility of whales evolving from land mammals that returned to the sea, because no fossil evidence of species intermediate between the ancestral land mammal and modern whales had been found. In the last twenty-five years, however, numerous fossil finds have filled in the gaps in the fossil record, and the lineage from Pakicetus through several species to the toothed and baleen whales of today is now well documented. In addition, DNA analysis shows that whales' closest living non-marine relative is the hippopotamus, and scientists now classify whales, hippos, and their kind as a single order: Cetartiodactyla


End Times, Apocalypse, Armegeddon.  
related pages:  Religion        Intelligent Design Jokes        BushWatch        Israel 
Fundamentalist College Biology Departments  
BJU, biology course: no evolution, but "who see the living world indelibly marked with the fingerprints of God of limitless wisdom and power." ...and a proper Christian philosophy of Science.

Notre Dame  

ORU " The faculty strongly espouse that their faith in Christ does not impede their scientific endeavors; rather, it encourages them to elucidate the majesty and glory of God as revealed through the workings of His biological Creation. Thus, we consider a vocation in biology as a God-ordained calling into the study of the wonders of His Creation. Another goal is to train students to use scientific and critical thinking skills to accurately discriminate between scientific facts and pseudoscience.

The wide scope in the biological sciences from the subcellular to the biosphere is reflected in the course offerings. The department offers a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) degree with majors in biology and science education and areas of concentration in Premedicine, Health Professions (e.g. Physician Assistant, Physical Therapy, and Pharmacy) and Environmental Science. These programs are designed to prepare students who desire to acquire a technical background in the life sciences; to pursue graduate work in biology; to train for work in industry and government; to prepare for professional training in medical school and other health sciences; and to prepare for a teaching major in secondary education. "

Intelligent Design back
ID is teach the controversy, and is back door creationism.

ID is not a scientific theory .... it has not been through the rigorous process of scientific testing that is required for a hypothesis to become a theory.  ID is not a scientific hypothesis,....not testable.

ID is a philosophically-based critique of evolution ...recycled creationist critiques from the 19th and 20th centuries that have failed to carry any weight with the scientific community in the past.  The theory of evolution does not eliminate the possibility of God

ID imposes limits on God's intelligence and power Couldn't God create a set of natural laws and processes.

Evolution 'gaps' exploited by ID .....Whales: anti-evolutionists twenty or thirty years ago railed against the possibility of whales evolving from land mammals that returned to the sea, because no fossil evidence of species intermediate between the ancestral land mammal and modern whales had been found. In the last twenty-five years, however, numerous fossil finds have filled in the gaps in the fossil record, and the lineage from Pakicetus through several species to the toothed and baleen whales of today is now well documented. In addition, DNA analysis shows that whales' closest living non-marine relative is the hippopotamus, and scientists now classify whales, hippos, and their kind as a single order: Cetartiodactyla

Questions to Ask the Christian School back
Talk Origins, prep for CR assault on science/ evolution.

Do you teach that evolution is immoral, ----then is nature immoral?  Do you mention Social Darwinism (not connected to Darwinism, SD - Herbert Spencer, Protestant nonconformism,, Lamarckian, Hobbes via Malthus 

Subjects to Consider: Christian schools may say that Marx embraced evolution. but Darwin argued that science should not address religious matters.

Christian schools may say Evolution is racist. -- Darwinism says human all the same, despite skin color differences.  Racism is far older than evolution. Racism historically associated with creationism: George McCready Price (father of young earth creationism, referred to negroes as degenerates) was racist (said blacks went soutHomo..(Phantom of Organic Evolution)

Christian schools will not mention Apartheid history, S. Africa, Christian National Education system, evolution was not allowed to be taught.  Bible belt fought hardest to maintain slavery. Darwin vehemently opposed slavery. Darwin referred to races as varieties

Henry Morris, Inst of Creation Research  racist.  Christian schools may promote idea that evolution promotes eugenics.  False   Hitler did not base his ideas on Darwinism, but on "divine right" philosophy. Hitler may have believed in Creationism.  

Crusades and Spanish conquest of Central America, religion was explicitly involved to justify them.  Evolution does not promote promiscuity or lust anymore than germ theory promotes infectious diseases.  Evolution: Homosexuality exists throughout nature.  Evolutionists are not atheists.

Creationism should not be taught in science classes. Equal time would mean you have to teach young-earth, old earth, day-age, gap theory, geocentrism, flat-earth, or hundreds of other versions of creationism from different religions. and of course: Thursdayism.   

Will your Christian school teach plate tectonics that occur within a biblical time frame and will your Christian school explain that universities call this bunk? See Institute for Creation Research 

Does the DNA molecule exist and is it 'correct'.  Did humans and dinosaurs exist at the same time?  Can you change water into wine?  Is HIV virus a "creeping crawling creature.?  Plate tectonics?, some land masses would have to be moving 1/4- 1/2 a mile per year. Pangaea. Permian 225m, Triassic 220m, Jurassic 135m, Cretaceous, 65m,

Does your Christian school advocate Dominionism? Are Christian schools also missionaries? Is your Christian school presenting a balanced view of religion?  Have you ever taught that evolutionists are godless immoral, racist, promotes promisuity, atheistic, communist, ?  Do you teach young-earth, old earth creationism?  How do you decide which creation story is right?  What is Thursdayism?  Are there 'new species' and how are they created?  Mutation? What's up with new Athens mosquitos?  Why is having a dog when your an infant, helpful as immunization.

Are you restricting  education choices by steering a career away from evolution. Shouldn't it be based on skills rather than avoidance of evolution.?

No scientific controversy about common descent and natural selection in the U.S. higher education system. Evolution most scrutinized theory.  Evolution under constant attack, but evidence continues to hold it's truth   No alternative has come along to refute it.

Does the medical community need knowledge of DNA, mutations and mtDNA to tackle bird flu. How does the bible help with bird flu.

Your Child back
Restrict the conversation to comparing your Christian school to University system. your child going from a Christian cocoon to a college cocoon.  Does your child disagree with the evolution because it conflicts with the bible.

Radioisotope dating, plate tectonics....etc are not in the bible, also HIV, Bird Flu, modern medicine.  Lyell's 3 volume Principles of Geology 1830, and Bacon wrote that man 'understands' as much as his observations permit...

Careers out because of focus on Biology / Evolution. Environmental Science, Medicine, Biology, Anthropology, Psychology,


Science and Evangelical Christianity    back
Much of the evangelical community rejects global warming as does George Bush.  but....

Effects of global Warming: .  30 % of frog species extinct, global warming, fungus.  Polar bears, cannibalistic, drowning to find food, ice packs smaller, harder to get to.  Greenland glaciers melting,

Biblical sexism? Women inferior. Women came from the rib of Adam.  Will your Christian school teach plate tectonics that occur within a biblical time frame and will your Christian school explain that the U.S. higher education system calls this bunk?

New species are being created in Ecotones (transistion zones between one ecosystem, such as a rain forest to another such as a savannah

Hybrid speciation, it uses two closely related parent species to create a third unique species. Takes two weeks, British / American team created 80 new kinds of yeast (single celled creature). Science, vol 298, p1774. Uof BC. 

Early human-like beings:   Since the initial discoveries of ancient, human-like skeletons in the Neander Valley in Germany in the 19th century, paleoanthropologists have uncovered a vast quantity of remains that appear more or less human. Scientists group the more primitive remains into genera called Australopithecus, Paranthropus, Ardipithecus, and Sahelanthropus. More advanced remains are called Homo. Even within Homo scientists find many distinct species, including Homo habilis, Homo erectus, HOMO ergaster, HOMO rudolfensis, Homo heidelbergensis, HOMO antecessor, HOMO neanderthalensis, HOMO sapiens (modern humans), and the recently discovered HOMO floresiensis, a diminutive specimen who survived until as recently as 13,000 years ago on the island of Flores in Indonesia. Modern humans overlapped chronologically with both Flores and Neanderthal individuals. Were all of these species human? Were only some of them, and if so, which ones? An important question to answer first is, what makes us human? From a theological perspective, one could argue that it is the image of God that makes us human. If so, could the image of God have been present in any of the other species listed here? These are questions that Christians must try to answer in the light of the scientific evidence.

Chimpanzees 98% similar DNA to humans.

Molecular biologists who study the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of humans have compared the mtDNA of thousands of subjects all over the world. Unlike nuclear DNA, mtDNA is transmitted only from mothers to children, without contribution from the father. These scientists' studies strongly suggest that a common female ancestor, nicknamed "Mitochondrial Eve," lived in Africa between 100,000 and 150,000 years ago. Interestingly, "Y-Chromosome Adam," who passed his Y chromosome to all currently living males on the planet, is estimated to have lived between 60,000 and 90,000 years ago. These hypotheses do not claim that Mitochondrial Eve or Y-Chromosome Adam were the first human female or male, but only that all living humans (in the case of "Eve") or all living males (in the case of "Adam") are descended from these individuals. In other words, they are the most recent common ancestors. Can recent special creation proposals account for this data? 

How does this interpretation of the Bible correspond to the fossil record?  How does this interpretation of the Bible explain the genetic similarity between humans and other organisms?  How does a fairly recent special creation (or a fairly recent worldwide flood) correspond to evidence of modern human occupation of different parts of the world?

How does a fairly recent special creation (or a fairly recent worldwide flood) account for molecular evidence that suggests a "Mitochondrial Eve" who lived about 100,000 years ago?  Christians forbidden to read Copernicus On the Revolution of the Celestial Spheres

'Law of evolution'.... Christians oppose the theory of evolution on the grounds that it is just a theory. This comment betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of the nature of modern science. Unlike math, which allows theorems to be proven logically, "proof" in science is based on testing hypotheses and, ultimately, creating theories. So-called "laws," like the Law of Gravity or the Laws of Motion, are really just theories that have been supported repeatedly by experiment. In this sense, the theory of evolution may also be called a law, because repeated experiments have confirmed various aspects of it, while also modifying or building on aspects of Darwin's original model....from

Modern scientists can point to many examples that demonstrate that the ages of both the earth and the universe are much older than the 6,000 or so years that one would derive from a literal reading of the Bible. These examples include:

1. red-shift of light from distant galaxies: suggests an age of the universe of between 13 and 15 billion years

2. radioisotope dating: based on observed ratios between different isotopes of radioactive elements, dates some rocks on earth older than 4.4 billion years (examples: carbon-14, uranium-thorium, potassium-argon)

3. plate tectonics: the slow movement of plates of the earth's crust floating on the underlying magma require the age of the earth to be at least 1 billion years old (also called continental drift)

5. pollen analysis: tracks existence of particular species of plant pollen, which can be preserved for up to 400 million years

6. ice core dating: samples earth's atmosphere at dates up to 650,000 years ago, for Antarctic samples

linguistic diffusion: recent studies of modern language diffusion suggest a date of at least 10,000 years for the closest possible common ancestor

7. soil creation by earthworms: suggests an age of several tens of thousands of years for current soil levels, assuming no erosion

erosion rates: erosion rate of Colorado River into the Grand Canyon indicates an age of several million years

8. molecular clock: genetic technique used to measure distance from common ancestor, indicates common ancestors of related species at tens of thousands of years, to hundreds of millions of years for distantly related species

9. optically stimulated luminescence: method of dating materials based on stored ionizing radiation, can date items more than 300,000 years old

10. thermoluminescence: method of dating materials based on stored nuclear energy, can date items more than 80,000 years old

11. archaeomagnetism: based on observations of reversals in the earth's magnetic field (evidenced in rocks containing iron), capable of precise age measurements up to 10,000 years, but geomagnetic reversals are observable in rocks dating back more than 100 million years

  1. electronic spin resonance: based on observations of unpaired electrons trapped in crystal lattices, can date items at least tens of thousands of years old

HOMO habilis, HOMO erectus,  HOMO ergaster,  HOMO rudolfensis,  HOMO heidelbergensis,  HOMO antecessor,  HOMO neanderthalensis,  HOMO sapiens (modern humans),  HOMO floresiensis, a diminutive specimen who survived until as recently as 13,000 years ago on the island of Flores in Indonesia.

Modern humans overlapped chronologically with both Flores and Neanderthal individuals.

Were all of these species human? Were only some of them, and if so, which ones?

What makes us human? From a theological perspective, one could argue that it is the image of God that makes us human. If so, could the image of God have been present in any of the other species listed here? These are questions that Christians must try to answer in the light of the scientific evidence.

Protein evolution, based on regular mutation of proteins, does not rely on observation of anatomical changes, by counting the number of mutational events. Look at hemoglobin structures, man and Rhesus monkey have same number of changes in hemoglobin since they separated but the structure is different. Man and chimp hemoglobin and albumin is exactly the same.

The rates of (change) incorporation of mutations into proteins seem to be nearly constant over evolutionary time. (allowing the dating of divergence of species).

Neutral mutations, have neither positive or negative effect on organism function. Research in this show separation at 5 mil instead of 30 million years.

First human fossils about 3 million years old. And same with teeth / bones. 

Identify subjects that are in a grey zone between science and religion. Love: brain function and role of hormones and brain chemicals. Radioisotopes dating, 

Religion did not exist until enough people gathered in cities and begun to communicate, invent language, realize the value of language in survival, categorize good and bad, and discover they as a collective population  did not understand their origins.

DNA Methylation is a natural epigenetic process ... is responsible for controlling the activity of genes by turning them off when not needed.  Measuring the differences in the methylation process between healthy and diseased tissue can be used to detect a change in gene activity that could trigger diseases such as cancer.  Microchip used to analyse.


Topics not taught in Christian Schools    back
Yahoo / Reuters Fossils of new dinosaur species found in Brazil, new species creation at biodiversity hot spots, camel twice the size of modern camels found, Analysis of fossil teeth, bone structures,  Plate tectonics (or catastrophism taught), Transistional beings between apes and humans, Neanderthal...etc


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